posted by [identity profile] serasempre.livejournal.com at 07:56am on 08/04/2003
I think this is a related issue, in a way. I often unconciously assume that everyone believes on first meeting that I'm charming and funny and kind to small animals and children, that I'm intelligent, but that I focus more on making people feel good than on working out my arguments and so sometimes I don't say quite what I mean, but the meaning's there and you can find it without too much work if you're already kindly disposed toward me and filtering what I say through that screen of kindness, et. al.

I'm often startled and sometimes a little hurt when someone picks up something I say and takes issue with it. My first response is, "but, I meant!" Only, how can they know what I meant if it's not explicitly stated and they don't have that background of: me = charming and loveable? What if their personality isn't the type to let things slide because of charmingness and loveability? It's not their fault I was incoherent or my arguments were weak or, frankly, wrong. That's my fault.

It's amplified when you're on the Internet. I did the thing I read described in bureacracy once. I lurked a long time. I read many, many posts. I fell in love with many buffistae because of their intelligence, or charm, or the way they lingered over certain words. I liked their giving or their ability to see beauty, or their reaction to horrible events. So, when I posted, I acted as if it truly were a cocktail party, we'd already said our "hello, nice dress" how are yous, and then I'd been standing by nodding intelligently all that while and that they were *aware* that I was standing there nodding intelligently. Only, they weren't.

Anytime some stranger walks up, puts a hand on your arm and acts familiarly, even if they seem clickable, feel good, have some charisma, it's going to make you uncomfortable if they invade your personal space. So, that's really what I did when I started -- I invaded -- and why, I think, my original posts in the firefly thread were so offensive to so many. I acted as if I were already a known and well-liked quantity.

So, bringing this back around to bad fanfiction -- maybe the same rules apply. Maybe these writers are expecting the reader to see them as they see themselves, well-meaning, fun-loving, intelligent but focused on the story they want to read, so they should be given a pass. They don't realize they don't get a pass because, when they write bad fiction it's (to stretch this analogy to the creaking point) an infringement of the reader's personal space. Maybe some of them will get that, but I think many will respond just as I did. "But? What? I only meant!" and then, to protect their feelings, they take it farther and it becomes the reader's fault.

I think I'm going to post a some form of this in my LJ, as well, because I don't think people are reading back this far and I find this conversation intriguing. Maybe someone else will comment on it too.

 
posted by [identity profile] askye.livejournal.com at 08:12am on 08/04/2003
Anytime some stranger walks up, puts a hand on your arm and acts familiarly, even if they seem clickable, feel good, have some charisma, it's going to make you uncomfortable if they invade your personal space. So, that's really what I did when I started -- I invaded -- and why, I think, my original posts in the firefly thread were so offensive to so many. I acted as if I were already a known and well-liked quantity.

Part of that, the reaction in B'cracy, was us being shocked at the exposure and explosion of members/users, it was all...unexpected. But I do understand what you mean, I often read people's LJs or lurk in places and feel familiar and then want to jump in and say things and act as if I know someone and then realize that I don't really and more importantly, they don't know me. I'm not even nothing to them becuase they have no idea that I'm even there. They may know that "random people may read my posts/lj/this mailing list" but they don't know that this particular person wants to talk to them.

So it's weird the way the Internet works, it's a bit, I think, like the way celebrities and fans work. Except, on the Internet it can be like that with anyone. You read about someone or their posts and you think you know them and if you don't actually interact with that person---email them, post with them,talk to them---then they don't know you at all and it's no different than learning about Charisma Carpenter or SMG. Except the person isn't famous. There's a feeling of familiarity and belonging that is false.

Although the celebrity/fan analogy doesn't work exactly.



So, bringing this back around to bad fanfiction -- maybe the same rules apply. Maybe these writers are expecting the reader to see them as they see themselves, well-meaning, fun-loving, intelligent but focused on the story they want to read, so they should be given a pass.


You have a good point. Readers and writers, especially well know fanfic writers or archivists or whoever, will often point out flaws in stories or balk at certain "tricks" that don't work in lesser stories but that work when handled well by really good writers. New comers may see this as unfair "I wrote like that but they say I suck!"

Fandom is different than professional writing because it is hobbyish and friend based on certain levels. So it's hard to say, well yes, what you wrote doesn't work because you can't write as well as X. The first writer will get offended and then if you try "well, it's the same as saying well, professional writer B can't get away with that either, but James Joyce can becuase he's Joyce." You still get the "but this is for fun."

I have to leave for lunch.

Do post this in your journal.
 
posted by [identity profile] serasempre.livejournal.com at 08:59am on 08/04/2003
I posted my hypothesis, with some improvements *g*. No responses yet, but then, LJ isn't exactly the bitch thread on the phoenix board, is it?

I hope this is helping with not being able to get to WX during school. I've been enjoying myself. I hope you have too.
 
posted by [identity profile] serasempre.livejournal.com at 10:19am on 08/04/2003
connie commented on my post and I couldn't think of what I wanted to say in response to her comment, and then realized that your response, above, about known authors and tricks, etc., is the answer I was looking for. I'd very much appreciate it if you were willing to post it to my LJ.

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